By the way, if you are using ar-15, the scope for ar-15 is the good one you should had. The pores were well filled, though the finish material seemed a bit softer than that of the Marlins. The finish was about average, we felt, for a modern rifle in this price category. Yes, the .444 Marlin is A GOOD CHOICE for grizzly or brown bear hunting, under average conditions, from a mid-range distance, with a medium grain expanding . Throw a moose in then I would lean to the .450 but realize that these lightweight .450 carbines kick like a .375 H&H. The last doe I hit at about 35 yards after the bullet hit a thumb size bush left a fist sized hole through the deer, and she STILL ran, but the blood trail was 5' wide to where she dropped after a 30 yard run. from a 20" barrel for 2,686 ft.-lbs. The Wild West version ($100) has steel wings to protect it, and would a better aperture choice. Mag. A straight-wall, .452-caliber cartridge with a rebated rim, it's capable of pushing a 250-grain bullet to 2,200 fps. The original loading used a 250-grain bullet with a muzzle velocity of 2200 fps from a. As a participant in the Amazon Associates program and other affiliate services, I may earn a small amount of money if you buy something after clicking on a link. 2.215 Case length, .451 Caliber projectiles Pro's Con's 450 Bushmaster AR VS 460 S&W Single Shot - Gunloads.com The .450 Bushmaster was developed for big game hunting with modern rifles. The 450 Bushmaster is taking off and new ammo offerings keep popping up. I have two .444's and a .450. Unless one lives in a state that requires a straight wall for hunting, then there is not much use for either unless it is to say you got one. The .450 Marlin was designed as a competitor to the .45-70 Government, so its ballistics are highly similar. flex tip Hornady's it shot 1'' at 75 yards - sighted in at that range since it's 65 yards to the hog feeder . That makes it a good option for recoil-sensitive shooters who must abide by tapered cartridge restrictions. The data in both cases are from a 20-inch barrel, which is somewhat common in the field and is the standard test length utilized by most ammunition companies. Our only complaint, a mild one, is wed like to see a wood finish that fills the pores more completely while still letting the wood figure come through. Straight-walled rifle cartridgesat least most of themare a lot more consistent. The Straight-Wall Deer Hunting Cartridge With the Most Potential: .444 Marlin, The Best Straight-Wall Deer Hunting Ammo for AR-15 Style Rifles: .450 Bushmaster, The Best Straight-Wall Deer Hunting Ammo For Long Shots: .45-70 Government. Ultimately, the biggest factor in choosing between these two cartridges will be what type of rifle you wish to use. While it does not have the power of the .450 Marlin, the .444 Marlin is very similar ballistically to the .45-70, . 350 Legend vs 450 Bushmaster, Pros and Cons of Each Explained Dont Buy. 450 Bushmaster - A Rifle Caliber Overview - The Lodge at AmmoToGo.com Straight-wall rifles, being rifles, typically do not. Using this web site acknowledges your agreement to the. The 444 Marlin (which I love) is headed in the other direction. The Best Straight-Wall Cartridge for Whitetail Hunting Advertising -
Learn how your comment data is processed. It served until the .30-40 Krag replaced it in 1892. 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Govt | Shooters' Forum The .45-70 uses a straight-walled, rimmed case measuring 2.105 inches, and maintains an overall length of 2.550 inches. Although we strive to provide the most accurate information as we can the information contained in this page is provided on an "as is" basis with no guarantees of completeness, accuracy, usefulness or timeliness. Hornadys 325-grain Flextip ammo has a muzzle velocity of 2050 fps and the bullet has a BC of .230. I have used the cartridge with the 275-grain Barnes bullet designed for the .460 S&W to take a truckload of hogs and an Asian water buffalo. All of it is excellent ammunition, and it is packaged in clearly marked boxes as to what it is, and in which rifles it can be safely used. Marlin .450 Bushmaster Deer Slayer Legal for Michigan Hunter in You may have a perfect group going on your target only to find the next shot is off in another time zone. The 450 bushmaster in the Ruger is a fine rifle for the money . 45 Raptor Vrs 450 Bushmaster | BestGunBlog.com If all you shoot are the Remington 240 grain loads they are pitiful. The case can also be handloaded to impressive figures in a suitable rifle, and there are some excellent bullets like the Swift A-Frame which will further enhance the performance of this old design, yet the classic cast-lead bullets at low velocities are still fun to shoot. These are lightweight rifles that are easy to handle and very fast to get a shot off, which can make them ideal for treks across the backcountry. Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. The recoil of the .450 was a bit stiffer than the .444 Marlin with Buffalo Bore ammunition. Thats fine and dandy. 1s, new Winchester 1886s, and the like. Perhaps as this trend grows, we will see some bolt-action .444 rifles from the mainstream gun makers. Still, one wonders: Is there a need for a .444 Guide Gun, the 444P? 45-70 VS 450 Bushmaster - Side by Side Comparison This means theres precious little need for the .444 in our book. The .444 Marlin has a smaller frontal diameter, and bullets of equal weight will possess a higher Sectional Density than those .458-inch diameter bullets, and should offer better penetration. 444 vs 450. 450 Bushmaster vs 45-70 Review & Comparison in 2023 - Tradoc News! Disclaimer: Sportsman's Warehouse assumes no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions of the information on this page. Also, moose, elk size game out to about 175 yards. It generates 21.34 ft-lbs of energy at 12.55 fps. Hot-loaded .45-70 ammunition is currently available from Buffalo Bore in three different bullet weights. . Our loaner was fitted with a ghost-ring Ashley aperture sight held to the receiver with two screws. Cooper was not only an icon of modern tactical applications; he was an serious hunter as well. Ive lost count of the groups that started under 2 inches with four shots and jumped to 5 or 6 inches on the fifth. That is not a problem, the 45-70 is way to much capacity for smokeless powder. I have always wanted a bolt action 444 Marlin, but the 450 Bushmaster has ballistics that are almost as good as the 444. Thats the exact opposite of whats in vogue with modern rifle cartridges today. Copyright 2023 National Rifle Association, Women On Target Instructional Shooting Clinics, Volunteer At The Great American Outdoor Show, Marion P. 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Its at the lower weight limit for maximum loads in the .444, and even with a muzzle brake we dont believe a shorter version would be all that good an idea. For that matter, is there a need for the .444 in any gun version, even though they cost $550 MSRP and have a low street price around $400? Wood-to-metal fit was truly outstanding on both Marlin rifles. It had a red cast in direct sunlight and was very attractive. Based on our test results, we dont think so. At 150 yards the 444 drops 2.4 inches, whereas the Bushmaster drops about 2.9 inches. Whats going on? Offers more range than any commercial lever gun cartridge except the .338 ME The 450 Marlin is rated at 43,500 psi compared to 28,000 psi for 45-70 Gov. In the shooting sports we call that reaction recoil or "kick." It can be measured or computed empirically and has been for this recoil table. By comparison, a 250-grain .450 Bushmaster factory load generates 22.99 foot-pounds of recoil, and a full-power 12-gauge slug generates 45 foot-pounds. Anybody who has done much range work with them knows that they are plagued with fliers. When it comes to .450 Bushmaster vs .350 Legend, is there a clear winner? Winchester Big Bore 94AE .444 Marlin, $404. View Details at Brownells. With a 150-yard zero, the Hornady ammo is 1.54 inches high at 100 yards, 4.68 inches low at 200 yards and 8.49 inches low at 250 yards. We would not mention this but for the fact that another shooter across the country reported to us he felt the exact same thing on two different Marlins. The trajectory of most .450 factory ammo allows you to zero at about 200 yards and hold right on anywhere inside that. Absolutely, it depends on what rifle you usemore exactly its weightas to how many foot-pounds of energy will jolt into your shoulder. Yes, the ported barrel helped cut muzzle flip, but our shoulders got sore from the too-hard pads on both Marlin rifles. I'm going to take a wild stab at it and say the deer wouldn't know the difference, at least within the normal operating range of both. For reference, a 3" 20 gauge load rattles your cage at 30 ftlbs. Straight-Wall Rifle Cartridges: Deer Hunting Advantages The .450 Marlin and the .450 Bushmaster are very similar cartridges: both are big bore cartridges intended for big game hunting at close quarters, and lose steam after about 150-200 yards. Both are straight walled cartridges, but the 45-70 has a longer overall length, a longer case length, and a larger diameter case than the 450 Bushmaster. Deer, hog, black bear size game. Its therefore important to keep in mind that we are comparing a 325 grain .450 Marlin against a 250 grain .450 Bushmaster--which are the commonly used bullet weights for each caliber. I own a 450 marlin and have been happy with it. Most gun makers and gun buyers were not interested in new rifles chambered for this underperforming cartridge. Brass case webs on rimmed cases, like the .45-70 or .444 Marlin, are more than strong enough for whatever pressure the stout Marlin action can take. It had a very long first stage, which wasnt a problem. Both shed velocity like mad, the Legend losing 29-percent of its muzzle velocity at the 200-yard mark and the Bushmaster 31 percent1,648 fps and 1,515 fps respectively. If you also shoot a Trapdoor Springfield or any other kind of weak-actioned rifle that takes the .45-70, it makes sense that you should not mix up your ammunition. The .444 shoots much flatter than most folks realize. One would think that would have to play in to your decision making. These drawings will be incorporated during the next revision of the relevant SAAMI Standard. The .450 Bushmaster is capable of using any .452-inch bullet, which opens a lot more doors for handloaders with the wide range of bullets on the marketincluding some outstanding choices from Barnes. .444 Marlin - Wikipedia However, if we found a gun which didnt have ejection problems like those we note below, wed upgrade that recommendation to a Conditional Buy for the pistol shooter who already owns .44 Magnums or Specials. Its very accurate and I feel more comfortable with it than a marlin 1895 big bore or another one of the other many 45-70 lever guns. The straight-hand stock had a sling swivel stud in the butt, and another on the steel that attached the wood forend. The $404 Side Eject Winchester felt like a toy compared to the relatively bulky Marlins. The Marlins rear sight was a spring-loaded buckhorn with U-notch. We dug it out with a knife, reloaded two more, and again the second round failed to feed. The .444 Marlin, .450 Marlin, and .45/70 are rimmed straight-wall rifle cartridges that are most commonly chambered in lever guns such as the Winchester 1886 and Marlin 1895, though there are single-shot options like the Ruger No. Born in 1873, .45-70 Govt. But in my opinion, the sheer flexibility of the .45-70 Government in both rifles and ammunition gives it a definitive advantage. Model: Bushmaster 450 Bullet Size: 250 grains Bullet Diameter: .452 inches Shell Case Length: 1.7 inches Energy (per 200 yards): 1,274 foot-pounds Velocity (per 200 yards): 1,515 feet per second Muzzle Energy: 2,686 foot-pounds Muzzle Velocity: 2,200 feet per second CLICK FOR BEST PRICE 45-70 Brand: U.S. Army's Springfield Armory His Thumper concept was a semi-auto rifle larger than .44-caliber, capable of taking big game out to 250 yards. Even despite this weight difference, the .250 Marlin manages to maintain a small advantage in velocity over the .450 Bushmaster. At the muzzle they are basically the same, .308 Win has around 2700 ft.lbf and 450 Bushmaster has just a few pounds under that. The muzzle velocity is 2200 fps, and the bullet carries a BC of .210. However, with Buffalo Bores good .45-70 loads, the Guide Gun would do anything anyone would want from a medium- to big-bore lever gun, vastly exceeding the maximum performance of the .444, and with lots of space to decrease performance as needed, even down to sub-444 levels. These are two very similar calibers, and indeed both the .450 Marlin and the .450 Bushmaster are seeking to imitate the classic .45-70 Government for different purposes. While there are hundreds of rifle cartridges suitable for deer hunting, when we add that straight-walled factor into the equation the list grows much shorter. Still, the clip each moves at this range is more than adequate to ensure satisfactory penetration, proper bullet expansion (if you are using such a projectile) and an ethical kill. ; this is a formidable load in any rifle. The 444 Marlin (which I love) is headed in the other direction. On the other hand, the Legend is available with thinner sporter contour barrels. Bushmaster also requested a name change to .450 Bushmaster, to which LeGendre agreed. vs. .458 Lott7mm Rem. (450 Bushmaster) 397119 45 Cal .458" 325 gr. All rights reserved. In contrast, Marlin had another idea entirely with the companys new .450 Marlin, though we dont know why the company didnt just chamber an existing lever rifle for Wild Wests better cartridge idea. I dont think anybody can say anything against the quality of marlin lever actions. But if you find a sample that doesnt exhibit the problem and you have zillions of .44 pistol bullets you want to shoot in it, then wed give it a Conditional Buy. The .450 Marlin will offer you better ballistics across the board and a lighter rifle that is very dependable and easy to manage, while the semi-automatic platform appeals to many and gives a range of customizable options. Single Shot Rifles For Sale - Vance Outdoors In essence the rimmed .444 Marlin is an elongated .44 Magnum (the case length is 2.225 inches, with an overall length of 2.550 inches), as it uses the same .429-inch diameter bullets as the classic revolver cartridge, albeit at a much higher velocity. Mag..300 RSAUM vs. .300 WSM .500 Jeffrey vs. .505 Gibbs7mm RUM vs. .300 RUM.308 Winchester vs. 7mm-08 Remington6.5 Creedmoor vs. .260 Remington.303 British vs. 8x57 Mauser.30-06 Springfield vs. All Other .30s.17 HMR vs. .17 WSM.450 Nitro Express vs. .470 Nitro Express350 Legend vs. .35 Remington.280 Ackley Improved vs. 7mm Rem. The hunting world is big enough for both the .450 Bushmaster and .350 Legend, and either will put meat on the table. For all the .450 Bushmasters assets, economic shooting isnt one of them. As far as trajectory, both start to drop excessively at 200 yards, 7.58 inches on a scope zeroed for 100 yards in the .350s case and 8.96 in the .450s. The recoil of the .450 was a bit stiffer than the .444 Marlin with Buffalo Bore ammunition. Thats alright. 444 MARLIN 45-70 GOVERNMENT 450 BUSHMASTER 475 LINEBAUGH 500 S&W Magnum 6.5 CREEDMOOR [+] Show more. When not at his press or the range he can be found chasing mule deer around the Rocky Mountains. Non-1911 .45 ACPs: Heresy, Or Are They Here To Stay? The new cartridge was named the .444 Marlin and was introduced along with the big bore Marlin model 444 rifle in 1964. Ive used a 308 and hit a branch with it and the bullet broke apart and i thankfully got a lucky hit to the neck with about half a bullet tumbling through the air. .450 Bushmaster - CHUCKHAWKS.COM any 450 bushmaster shooters on here | Long Range Hunting Forum A small point perhaps, but the action bottom at the balance point was squared on the Winchester, but nicely rounded on the Marlins, and that made the Marlin easier to carry. We started with 27 barrels for each cartridge and collected velocities cutting one inch off at a time and retesting all the way down to 13 using multiple loads of ammunition. Just $1 per month , Thinking about swapping your slug gun for a rifle this fall? Big-Bore AR Cartridges | An Official Journal Of The NRA For $404, wed give it a Buy rating, being a better deal than the $550 Marlin. We know that Winchester has brought out a shorter-barrel version of this rifle, complete with ported muzzle, but we dont see a real need for it. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. However, we measured Buffalo Bores 350-grain .45-70 load at 2,058 from their Guide Gun (on a cold day, unlike the blazing heat in which we tested the .450 Marlin). The inletting was nowhere near as good as on the Marlins. Few rifle calibers carry as much tradition as the .444 Marlin, which originally hit the scene as a way to give lever-action rifles more of a punch around the ammunition manufacturers stopped commercially producing .45-70-caliber rifles in the 1960s. And truly, it is a pleasurable cartridge, very much akin to the .30-30, which by almost anyones standard is extremely manageable. Can Coolers | An Official Journal Of The NRA, Find More Great NRA Publications Perfect For Every Interest, Discover Everything That The NRA Has To Offer. There is a difference between the two, and the edge goes to the .350 Legend, but it doesnt have such an overwhelming advantage to say its hands-down better. The second shot told us that something was drastically wrong somewhere. The .444 Marlin was available in a svelte Marlin lever-action riflethe Model 444and proved to be a thumper on big game from whitetails to moose and bear, though like the .45-70, the range was limited by the low velocity and bullet profiles. Also, the steel-to-steel fit wasnt quite as good as Marlins, nor was the metal polishing. But in all honesty, it isnt for everyonebe it due to tight quarters or time constraints. The forests around here are always thick brushed with all sorts of not only leafy brush but full of little twig saplings and raspberry bushes and the like. The Winchester had a 20-inch barrel. The ported barrels of these rifles worked wonders to keep the muzzle down, but the rearward kick was still significant. Which of these big cartridges makes the better choice for the prospective lever gun buyer? Perhaps with a longer barrel the ammunition might achieve its claimed 2,100 fps. (45-70 Govt) The standard load will push a 240-grain .429-inch diameter bullet to 2400 fps for just over 3,000 ft.-lbs. The case length for both rifle cartridges is virtually identical, with the 45-70 measuring 2.10" compared to 2.105" for the 450 Marlin. Then somebody figured out that straight-walled rifle cartridges are just as safe as slugs. And when it comes to straight-wall Midwestern deer options that would be the .450 Bushmaster. Muzzle Energy: 2,686 foot-pounds. Mag. It retains 1,000 foot-pounds of energy to about 360 yards. It goes so far as, previously mentioned, manufacturers offering the same model rifle in both .450 Bushmaster and .350 Legend. Though we believe the .45-70 version is a much better bet, many riflemen who also own .44-caliber handguns will want to own the .444 Marlin, and its a pretty good rifle. . This is where the differences end, as the 45 70 and 450 are more similar than they are different. How's the recoil of the 450 Bushmaster? - Michigan Sportsman Forum Or more other on Scopes & Sights Resource for other rifle. Save big on firearms, accessories, tactical gear, clothing, and ammunition from now until March 29. 2.100 case length. Heres how they compare to each other. Still, we liked the lively feel of the 94AE. Is the any advantage. Being bracketed by the proven .444 Marlin and .45-70, the belted .450 Marlin doesnt fill a lever-gun niche any better than the other cartridges. Its an interesting and unique addition and most are mighty fun to shoot. You have to understand though I live within walking distance of the northern end of the white mountain national forest and the hills around here often get above 4000 feet in elevation. 7 Straight-Wall Rifle Cartridges That Shine During Deer Season The higher velocity and energy of the .450 Marlin allows it to shoot a bit flatter than the .450 Bushmaster. The plus side of this cartridge is that recoil is pretty mild, so its a good choice for shooters who need to take recoil into consideration. is more comparable to the .350 Legend, but you're losing power and velocity. Theres just no need for a new cartridge in this same performance range. Registration on or use of this site constitutes acceptance of our Terms of Service. Whether you are reloading for handgun, rifle, shotshell or muzzleloading we have what you need. If you want a powerful lever-action .45-caliber rifle, you probably know what youre doing. We also used the data gathered to suggest optimum barrel lengths for each cartridge to help decide which was best. We can, however, see the beauty of an aperture sight, and desperately wanted one on both of the Marlins, such as the excellent ghost-ring Ashley or the even better fully adjustable version from Wild West with its protective ears. Probably. Newly Accepted Cartridge and Chamber Designs. A behemoth by any standard, the large-bore rifle cartridge has been the go-to for many if not most hunters around the shores of Lake Michigan and Lake Erie up to this point. Wed like to see Marlin spend its efforts making great rifles perfectly, rather than expending energy on useless new projects like the .450 Marlin. Shotgun slugs require a series of small miracles to happen for them to perform well. Gun Tests Recommends Marlin 444P .444 Marlin, $550. We cant see the sense of a scope on a short, relatively light rifle, unless its done Scout-style like the Co-Pilot. 44 mag, 45 colt, 444, 450 marlin, 45-70 lever rifles for The front sight was a gold-faced bead on a ramp underneath a protective hood. At reasonable straight-wall cartridge hunting distances, for both velocity and trajectory, there is no real out-and-out winner between .450 Bushmaster vs .350 Legend. The 265 Hornady flat point bullet is THE bullet for the .444, The Hornady SuperPerformance ammo is very accurate in my .444 and the bullet performs great. Calibers for Beginners: .450 Bushmaster - The Truth About Guns While the .450 Marlin sought to improve it with modern ammunition techniques while eliminating the chance that shooters would load high-pressure modern ammunition into vintage rifles and cause catastrophe, the .450 Bushmaster sought to translate the short-distance big game cartridge onto the semi-automatic platform. 1.790 Case length. The parent case is a modified 284 Winchester, it's simply cut to 1.695 and also utilizes a small rifle primer. Because of its recoil, a .28 Nosler should generally only be shot out of heavier rifles, coupled with a brake or suppressor. First of all, theres no need for it. Yes, this includes the mighty .444 and .45-70, as well as the .338 ME and its bolt action analog, the venerable .30-06. Again, there isnt a bright clear advantage when it comes to rifles chambered for cartridges. of energy. We didnt like these, having become thoroughly used to the half-cock position on hammer rifles. But the .450 Bushmaster and .350 Legend are chambered in very similar rifles, some from the same line with minuscule differences. In days past these included the .348, various wildcats on that theme like the .450 Alaskan, the .45-70, and numerous blackpowder-era cartridges modernized with smokeless powder. Get the latest news and reviews from Gundigest.com. This Marlin, as weve come to expect from Marlins (especially the new breed with real rifling grooves) laid em in there as well as we could hold with iron sights. Archive -
There are a few single-shot rifles out there as well, but this cartridge needs a modern repeating rifle. Four REASONS I WAS THINKING OF A 450 BUSHMASTER 20"UPPER 1.WAY LESS FELT RECOIL THAN A 12 GAUGE THANKS TO THE AR15 BUFFER TUBE DESIGN . The .450 Bushmaster thumper round launches .452-cal. Copyright 2023Sportsman's Warehouse. All Marlins. Of all the ammo available, the highest muzzle energy of the Socom is 2380 ft/lbs of energy. (Well cover the .35 Remington or .356 Winchester another day.) The .30-06 cartridge has a strong but not particularly sharp recoil. Like the .450, the .444 Marlin rifle was very well made.
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